“Overcoming Addiction: A Conversation with Brian Wall”

[00:00:00] Jake White: Welcome back everyone to another episode of Party Talk where we empower leaders in youth drug prevention. And today I’m hanging out with Brian Wall. I met this dude on LinkedIn and he seemed super-interesting. I’m following his posts and just blown away by the content that he’s on there. And by the way, I meet a lot of people on LinkedIn. So if you’re listening to this, and you’re not on it, you can learn a ton. Brian, how are you today?

[00:00:29] Brian Wall: I’m good brother. Thanks for ebbing and flowing with me so we can find time to meet. I appreciate you being flexible.

[00:00:34] Jake White: No worries. There’s nothing wrong with being busy.

[00:00:37] Brian Wall: Well, am I busy is worried about that. I’m not worried about the kids or worrying about it being too hot outside right now. I’m like, who worries about this kind of stuff. You got a little kiddie pool up there, fill it up and jump in. That’s what the pool is pointing out there right now. I’m trying to eat ribs before I jump on with Jake. Don’t bother me right now. I get the pole. You’re not hated.

[00:00:59] Jake White: There are worse things for sure. So Brian, tell me more about you and what you’re doing. I know you’re in the addiction field and recovery. In your own words, just tell us a little bit about you.

[00:01:13] Brian Wall: It’s a long story. I feel like I’ve always tried to recap this or summarize it in a way that makes good sense and it never does. But I’ll give it another shot today. I’ve been in the field for over two decades across four countries. And I’m licensed as a mental health counselor and a professional counselor in mental health counselor in Florida, professional counselor in South Carolina, addiction counselor as well in both and qualified supervisor in both. So that’s where my journey has brought me to present date. But that experience over two decades across four countries is been included all levels of care and give me a lot of great insight in in learning what it is that folks need to get to feeling better. So I’ve now taken that into Wings recovery online. And that’s what I do as a private practice and hoping to help folks. And in that capacity, so do that full time now and do a lot of podcasts and stuff just because I love to spread the word and bring awareness. And this is just another one of those opportunities and I appreciate you allowing me to do it.

[00:02:17] Jake White: Absolutely. So in your experience to get decades across, or countries is that is that all from the perspective of someone needed help quitting a substance use disorder and getting better and getting healed from that, or was there a different job that you were doing that?

[00:02:36] Brian Wall: I started as a behavioral health tech bottom level, work my way up, did a lot of Crisis Intervention stuff and then became licensed when it’s my graduate degree, and then led a mobile crisis team for a psychiatric hospital inpatient psychiatric facility for about seven years, and then led me to doing residential work in Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Panama, and then also in the US as well. So all levels of care all an array of diagnoses and base level depression to more complex psychosis influenced diagnoses and then on into addiction as well. Addiction is something I claim to just because something I’ve struggled with all my life as well and something that I have to keep in check. So I’ve got a an adventure of my own without a journey that’s led me to become the I feel like the man that I am today. I don’t take back a lot of the poor decisions I made, I wish I would have made them a little different maybe and not hurt some people that are hurt, but at the same time, I cleaned it up pretty well and learn quite a bit from those mistakes and it’s led me to guide folks in the right way today. So no complaints, I guess, God’s plan.

[00:03:53] Jake White: And that’s the thing is like to expect that anyone’s gonna go throughout life without those mistakes, that’s a good perspective to have that they served a purpose, and unfortunately, hurt some people along the way. But now you can make sure that other people and be helpful so that other people don’t have to repeat them or can hope. It’s a generational thing. I think that our parents said that to us. And hopefully we’re learning throughout each generation how to influence a little bit better.

[00:04:24] Brian Wall: So hope we’re all better, better not bitter.

“Helping Teens and Young Adults in Recovery”

[00:04:27] Jake White: I like that. And just real quick too. I want to ask about the wing program that you have is so as someone who is struggling will come to you and you can be an online coach, or what is the online program that you’re running right now?

[00:04:46] Brian Wall: It’s all through telehealth and obviously see folks I’m not paneled with anybody yet with insurance companies. It’s great to have insurance and all that I have insurance. I think there’s benefits. There’s a lot of, in my opinion, really ridiculous requirements. So they demand to get reimbursed by him. And a lot of times, it’s not the same reimbursement that I get from private practice. So I’m hesitant to get credential in some areas, I’m still toying with that. Because I’ve honestly been praying about it trying to figure out what God’s plan is for that. I don’t know where I’m at with that yet. But I do think that there’s a lot of rigmarole and a bureaucracy that I’m not so much in agreement upon, because it hinders the process to actually care for people in my opinion. So that’s for me, but the “Wings” away is what I call it, and it’s an opportunity to join my tribe, it’s me bringing folks in to my family system and taking care of them as such, and it’s more addiction related and specific to teens and young, young adults. I think that’s where my gift is mostly, although I’ve dealt with folks across the board of all ages, all diagnoses and still have an array of clients that don’t fit that that I just described there across the board. But all telehealth have international clients, if it’s Florida or South Carolina, then I had piggyback on my license, if it’s anything out outside of that, then I take more of a life coach approach.

[00:06:24] Jake White: Very cool, then I’m glad you brought that up is that you work with teens and young adults, because I really wanted to pick your brains. And now that we know your background, I would love to, I want to learn something from you while we’re hanging out.

[00:06:38] Brian Wall: Hope I can offer something a lot of better.

[00:06:42] Jake White: Well, you will you got two decades.

[00:06:46] Brian Wall: So where does people first man, I can only speak from my own experiences and things I’ve gained from clients, it’s really cool that you spend so much time with clients and they’re looking me to guide them. And I learned so much from the people that I spend time with on a daily basis. It’s crazy.

[00:07:02] Jake White: I think that’s where most of our experience comes from. We can learn from a computer. But those stories and those connections, that’s what really lasts, you really learn from so I want to ask you just like this simple question of when somebody comes to you, let’s say a youth or a young adult, and they’re struggling, what’s your goal as far as you’re taking them and maybe they have some a certain array of challenges? And then what’s your steps or what is your goal to bring them to that new place where they feel you help them? What do you see students deal with? And then where are you wanting to take them?

[00:07:44] Brian Wall: So it’s really interesting that a lot of folks you come to and I have an addiction issue. Well, that’s one thing. That’s a big umbrella. What does that mean to you picking that apart? And then when you deal with teens and young adults, a lot of times the parents are in the mix. And honestly, getting the parents out of the mix is quite beneficial. I think it allows for not discounting them, or they can’t have any influence. I’m not saying that by any means, but getting the teen and the younger, young adults to a place where they feel like they have a say in the process. A lot of times, they feel overpowered or guided or controlled by mom and dad and that’s frustrating. I get that. So they’re in that place where they’re young adults really, even if they’re 18, they’re moving into young adulthood. So there’s that independence and autonomy, and that needs to be taught. It needs to be gifted, need to be model and that sort of thing. So a lot of times mom and dad have a hard time doing that, because they’re super scared. I have kids, I get it, and they don’t want to let go. And that hinders the process, and oftentimes creates obstacles that don’t need to be there. So I’m doing a lot of coaching with the parents to give them the confidence, they need to step aside and let them take the wheel. That’s a big part of what I do, while letting the teen and young adult believe that they have the will. Not saying they don’t but it’s kind of a copilot sort of situation early on, and better understanding where they feel their struggles are what mom and dad are going to describe or whatever they’re going to whatever way they’re going to describe it. But what do you really feel like is going on and it’s always different. And it’s never in line with mom and dad. It’s never like, “Oh, I do too much cocaine. Oh no, I think my dad hates me.” I get that. So I understand how that’s going to lead you to do some of these things a mom and dad are like, “Let’s look at the core stuff and let’s start picking that apart and see where that takes us.” So I try to get to know the client. I try to work a lot on strengths. I know we’ve heard that a lot, but it works. I think it makes sense. We focus on the positives and the negatives and work on those strengths and use those two I’m digging a hole in the right direction. I’ve been digging a hole in the wrong direction for a long time. So getting that momentum turned back the other way. And using that to better understand themselves understand the core beliefs, their values, and how that can play to get them going in the  direction of authentic authenticity. And who am I really, and that’s really what they’re trying to figure out when they’re this age. So it’s scary. So that’s really kind of my “Wings” way, is just walking them through that process. And there’s a number of different ways I do that it just depends on the individual and their struggles and what the family system makeup is, etc. But I’m using all that in a way to get them back on the right track, if that makes sense.

“Building Rapport and Authenticity in Addiction Counseling”

[00:10:45] Jake White: It definitely does. I think of the people who will listen to this is it’s that school counselor, principal, or there’s somebody who is social worker, and the person from the coalition was going into schools, and they’re saying, “Hey, we have a problem where students are vaping, and using THC and all these things.” So it’s probably scary for those people to say, now I’ve got to take away from my expertise. And now I got to become a counselor or a student in crisis, and they need to help them is you’re kind of doing that too, though is in crisis. And their parents are telling you one thing, because they think they’re in crisis too. But you have two entities here, and we need to focus on the student, figuring out what your perspective is, because there’s legitimate reasons why you’re using, and I’m curious if there’s any tips or anything that you’ve learned to help the student feel safe around you, like they can open up and share those things with you? How do you do that?

[00:11:46] Brian Wall: I think a lot of it is the fact that I’m kind of a doofus. I’m just a real dude. I’ve been through a lot of stuff. As a cocaine addict for seven years crack, the whole nine was seeing folks in individual counseling while I was jacked up on crack, I’ve been there the darkest of the dark. I’m a mess. I’ve just gotten to the point where I covered up a little better than I used to that blanket, I’m healed and I’m trying to be funny. I’ve been through a lot of stuff. And I think that it, it gets to a place when I want to introduce myself, and usually if I’m talking to things that were my earrings, and I don’t know, that means something to teens for some reason, whatever it works as a costume jewelry, I’ll take it, whatever works is what I’m into. So after I introduce, I gotta tell my story a little bit. I think it just softens the room up. And I think part of it is just rapport building. And some of that is what you can learn and some of us God given. And there’s a God given gift there for me. I don’t flaunt it. It’s just the way God wired me and I use it for good, not evil, but I want to help people, I want to get them to feel comfortable around me and I want to get to talk into stuff that matters having real conversations about real stuff. And that’s kind of what I do. I just kind of play Brian, it’s a Brian Wall, just do me. And if there’s something in the room that doesn’t feel right or sound right, I call it out. You feel uncomfortable around me, what’s something comfortable? You want to get out of here and go for a walk? You want it like what do you after if I’m doing in person, if you’re doing telehealth stuff, then it’s just kind of a different conversation. And I’ve learned to make that work for me in the favor of the client.

[00:13:26] Jake White: Very cool. So what I’m hearing that’s maybe even helpful for me, is if I’m in that situation. Number one is just being authentically who you are showing up and then also just not to come from that place, I’m here to help you. You’re practicing humility. You’re taking yourself I’m the doctor, or I’m the counselor, I’m just like you. And it takes the edge off of the student which you kind of like you said, you kind of do it naturally, because that’s who you are some of that stuff. Even if you’re not naturally that way. It could be a conscious choice to say, I’m not going to wear the tie and the belt and the fancy shoes today. I’m going to wear the regular shoes when I go in and meet with students.

[00:14:15] Brian Wall: Just show up and meet people where they’re at. I go out of my way. The hardest thing I do is not playing counselor. That takes up a lot of my time. Like, just not being who I’ve been hired to be. It’s really interesting. But it’s like, I try not to be in the room. Honestly, I’m a Christian. And I do a lot of praying through a lot of sessions. And it’s just kind of like God, “Let me not be in the room.” Just be there and get this person to open up and meet them where they’re at. Let them feel comfortable and see your face, hear your voice, feel your touch. I don’t care what they term that as but just let them feel comfortable in this space and allow me to do the work that you called me to do.

[00:14:55] Jake White: That’s incredible. Honestly, being a Christian myself, I’ve had moments where I into meetings with students. And I had to do it, they knew they had to do it. And it was super awkward. And I just had to pray quickly. So this is not going to go well. And that turned into this magnificent moment where I actually heard a year later that students saying, I was going to commit suicide, and our time spending time together, praying together, me getting to share with you, I didn’t do it. So life is different. So I can attest you. Even if you’re not a Christian, the evidence in faith in prevention and addiction, you can’t argue with the numbers and how impactful it is. So I tried to help people like at least be open to it.

[00:15:44] Brian Wall: I remember there’s so many times I used to work with the Federal Bureau of Prisons and Department of Corrections in a couple of states and it’s really interesting. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve met with folks that just after conviction and sentencing, etc, and sometimes sentence and sometimes small and most of the time one of the icebreakers that I tended to use was like, “Man, this sucks. You screwed up bro. You screwed up big. Are you scared out of your mind right now or what? Dude, you screwed up. Good news is, I’m your best ticket out. So check this out. You pair with me. Let’s do this together. We’re going to journey together and I’m gonna leave you not gonna forsake you.” That sounds religious done. We cannot do these little jokes here and there but we’re gonna do this together. We’re gonna figure this out. You landed here for a reason. We got matched up for reason. I’m good at what I do. Let’s just do it together. Let’s journey together. We’re copilots here. Let’s make this happen. Let’s get you through this. Learn something from it. So don’t happen again. And see where it takes us. Frustrated or not? Let’s just do this together and agree that we’re going to be on the same island together. Deal? Can we just do this? Can you get around it? So let’s just do it. Here we go.

[00:17:10] Jake White: That’s cool. Honestly, I would probably write that down, those are the steps I need to just call it out. What’s happening in the room? Even if it sounds crazy, and I love you, this have the confidence of the goofiness, like you just shared, you’re kind of goofy, you’re making fun of yourself. You’re talking about the situation like, let’s just point it out. It’s almost the same stuff happens when I do assemblies, I’m not dressing up to impress anybody. I’m gonna humiliate myself, take myself down a peg. I don’t need to be the smart speaker. I’m going to share something humiliating. And then same thing is, I’m going to pop the bubble of what they expect to happen in this presentation and lets everybody breathe out. We’re just doing this together. Let’s have some fun. Be here in the room for the next 45 minutes. Why don’t we just have a good time?

[00:18:07] Brian Wall: We’re all human. We’re all screw ups. If you haven’t screwed up yet, it’s common, trust me. I screwed up last night. I’m the target today, whatever. But trust me your day is common. Because we’re all imperfect by nature. It just is what it is. So how do we use that as a strength? How do we play into that and make it work in our favor? That’s what I’m after.

[00:18:29] Jake White: Very cool. And how do you I’ll ask you one more question we got out. But what is something you’re learning right now that you’re excited about or maybe that you’re sharing with people that kind of lights you up or you just be pumped to share with us?

[00:18:44] Brian Wall: I love ice plunge stuff. I’m an ice plunge guy. I love that kind of concept. And it boosts your feel good chemical, serotonin and dopamine about 250% up to three hours of residual after the use, whether it be in the shower, or full plunge in a tub increases testosterone increases your immune system. It’s an anti-inflammatory. It’s super incredible stuff. So I love ice punch stuff. I love really practical things that we can do as people that that work. A lot of times, I was listening to Huberman lab the other day and we talked about breathe in and breathe out and all this and that’s great and it’s helpful. But the most effective way to decrease anxiety is to take a breath in and then a quick one in and then out. So that’s the most effective way to do it’s been proven in research. So a lot of this breathe in, breathe out, not as affected. So I always want to learn what is the most effective way to get me where I want to be?

[00:19:42] Jake White: I want to definitely point people to a couple of things that I saw on your page and then give you a chance to share how people can connect with you. I just want to bring something up I saw you post that is just pretty cool. It says a dozen things to say to your kids. At bedtime, and I’ll just read off a few of them. You’re exactly who this family needs. You worked so hard on this today. Did anything surprise you today? I love the person that you are. You kept trying and it got easier. What’s one thing you’d like me to know? Nothing could change how much I love you. If you want to read the rest of them. They’re there on your page. I think you shared it. So connect with Brian on LinkedIn, hear about all his stuff, his experiments, his research his company, but how can people stay in touch with you if they’re kind of resonate where you’re going or they know people that need help with what you offer.

[00:20:39] Brian Wall: Absolutely. I’m super active on LinkedIn and taking a week off right now. A social media break, I felt like I needed that. I was getting too caught up and things started cluttered my mind honestly, so I was just like, “Dude, I gotta take a week off”. We got a marketing guy and he’s just like, “Alright, it’s fine.” You could take a week off, so I took a week off and it’s been great. I’ve been trying to stay off of social media this week and it’s clear my mind and recenter myself but I do a lot of stuff on LinkedIn. You can find me there Brian K Wall, do trilogy series on “Mental Health Monday”, “Wellness Wednesday” and “Phoenix Friday” for addiction. Also active on Instagram at Wings_Recovery, earnings recovery online. Also the same on Facebook, but you can find me on Facebook at Brian Wall. If you want to reach me directly via email, you’re welcome to do so at wallbehavioralhealth@gmail.com.

[00:21:28] Jake White: That’s great. Thanks for the conversation. This was awesome for me. I hope that you had a good time and got to share what you needed.

[00:21:35] Brian Wall: Rock’n’roll, man. Thanks for having me, Jake. You take care of brother. Have a good weekend.

[00:21:39] Jake White: You too. Thanks to Brian Wall for being on the show. I hope you enjoyed it and be empowered do great work this week, and we’ll see you next time next Monday for another episode. If you haven’t already subscribed to the show, leave us a note and let us know who you want.