“Cross-Border Connections: Jake White and Jacques Discuss Youth Drug Prevention and Sober Party Expeditions”
Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Party Talk Podcast where we empower leaders in youth drug prevention. I’m your host Jake white. And today we’ve got a special guest. We’ve got Mr. Jacques, from from the Canada from up North. I’m not even going to try to. Canada. That definitely wasn’t a real accent dirty thing, but we will catch on as we go Jacques.
Yeah, I’m up. I’m up here in Canada. And yeah, I initially got started in my career as the party scientist focusing on, on binge drinking research at my University. So So you know, we have such a common, common origin story, I imagined. Jake,
Jacques, before you get going, Okay. Do we have to do this, we have to do this. So we met, we’ve known each other for years, our paths have been running parallel to each other. And the only difference is we’re just across the border from each other. Like, that right I’m just going to set it up like this. But please, please, like, I’ve looked across at all your stuff and men do it. I want to be Jacques. Like that’s who I want to be. You’re throwing events. You’re having fun, like, your life is such an adventure. So I just wanted to tee that up. Now.
I think you’re referring, you’re referring to my sober party expeditions across the world.
Yeah. Because you’re gonna see, listen, for everyone who is listening or watching this, you’re gonna see like how insane our paths are. And the fact that like, even when we met, it was scary how similar we were. And then all the way through, we would call to catch up probably like once a year, or once every half hour. We’re like, wait, you did what? I did that. You did what? I did. And so, I mean, let’s reminisce, let’s, let’s tell the story a little bit. And then I want to dive in, because you are kind of this subject matter expert on joy, and producing it without drugs and alcohol. Like, if I could put it in my simple terms of why I love what you do. That’s what I would say. But let’s, uh, I think that’s going to be awesome for people to hear about. Jacques, take us What do you remember on like, the time where we got connected? And what you were doing? We want to hear all about it.
“Redefining Celebration: Shaping a New Way of Socializing without Drugs and Alcohol”
Yeah, yeah why I think the huge commonality is we, we loved bringing people together, we loved getting young people to socialize differently and and connect more meaningfully and go out of their comfort zones without without drugs or alcohol. And I was running a group called “Party for Health.” And the idea was, how do I reframe partying as a health habit? And how do I how do I show people that there’s this this alternative that exists that is really like a natural antidepressant? It’s it, it nourishes all aspects of our well being right, our mental physical health down to like our inflammatory markers, right? This is this is the power of human connection. And yet, you know, when I was at UBC, studying, binge drinking, I just saw again and again, and I was a medic at festivals as well. And I, I saved a bunch of young people’s lives from drug overdoses. Point is I was, like festivals, like music. Yeah. music festivals. That’s right, one of one of which, ironically, everyone’s gonna get to disapprove of this name. The festival was called Faded. Oh, no. The whole festival for 20,000 kids. So I was obsessed with researching party design. And so I think I discovered you and our first call, we just couldn’t stop talking about the events that we’re doing. Right. We started with events, and I still do that like I am. I believe that community is the greatest, you know, predictor of our well being. So events is what I do for fun, but then I do speaking, I’m kind of trailing in your footsteps and speaking of, speaking career now. Yeah, but yeah, was it how you remember it?
Okay. That’s how I remember it. And I did remember the details. So what I’m pulling out right now, which is so funny. You are Party for Health. I was party point zero, party point. Oh, yeah. And I mean, just the name right there. That’s gonna tease you a little bit. Like, that’s kind of funny. And we’re throwing drug free events, emphasizing, like you said, human connection. And my whole thing was like, “hey, gives students an opportunity to socialize without drugs and alcohol and they’re taking it. they’re enjoying it.” As long as they leave with one new friend and one new experience, which that’s what you did as well. It was And I’ll let you get to the part of the story. But at some point, I remember you taking this and you could show up to any place like, in my mind watching is like if Jacques showed up at the grocery store. He could throw a party and everyone there would be connecting and meeting each other and having an amazing time. Like that is, that is my view of you man.
Oh, yeah, yeah. So what, what you’re referring to is the, the tours I’ve done where I’ve developed this skill of, yeah, bringing people together wherever I am, putting myself out there, and getting strangers celebrating high-fiving smiling, laughing together. And so I did this, across Europe, I did this in Central America. And it’s, it’s it shatters people’s perceptions of like social, social norms. Right. And this is something you know, that I learned about when I attended a conference in Portland about drug and alcohol prevention is social norms in your school social norms at your university and how we miss perceived social norms. And it results in you know, more drug and alcohol consumption. So, social norms I figured out as I traveled with this giant speaker, I’m in yeah, I, I say this, embarrassingly, but I used to wear a banana suit. I used to wear a banana suit, because the idea was, everyone would stop and wonder what was going on. And everyone would say to themselves, well, I can’t look like an idiot as much as that guy is. So I’ll survey. So I traveled around the world, and I developed these skills that I think, you know, every student, every human can develop the skills of, of, of taking social risks, or reaching out to people and creating these joyful interactions. And I also develop the skill of just like, meeting with joy. Like, I figured out a way to create joy within myself, and then I would share it with others, you know, until I was leading a parade, right, like a parade. Last few 100 people.
Yeah, exactly. Wow, okay. Um, I love what you said about social norms, too, because that is, that is something big that everyone listening here is probably attune to. And they’re wondering how can we use positive, positive social norms, which is, what I like to tell people is social norms can be a campaign where you say, any of the majority of middle school and high school students don’t use drugs. But what’s missing is the social proof. So what you and I are doing is showing the proof, because I know from doing presentations, you can tell students that there’s you know no majority aren’t using doesn’t mean that they have to believe you. It doesn’t mean there’s not an inconsistency, when, you know, they go to the bathroom, and it seems like someone’s vaping or, or smoking or drinking, or at the weekends, the only offers of socializing I got was to go to these parties where drugs and alcohol are. So there’s inconsistencies. So we have to show them like it’s not enough to tell them or to have a poster. But what I love about you’re doing is like wait, there’s a parade of people validating that social proof man. So I love it. That’s so cool.
I’m, I’m really intrigued by this. This situation. I’m, I’m very intrigued, you know, by this whole impact of social media and like shareability, digital, digital content being shared and how it impacts social norms, and I think it’s safe to say that partying, you know, when people are partying, they’re primarily showcasing a very normative style of partying. And so I don’t think there’s a lot of content being shared on these platforms in these friend circles that it’s, yeah, I’m just I’m just pointing out that there’s a lot of media out there, reinforcing this, like, you know, uni dimensional way of partying. And there’s so much history and there’s so much like, big alcohol money, and there’s so much behind this concept, like powering these connotations of partying. But, you know, I’ve just decided to leave partying behind really, and I have my own word and my own practice, and I am not trying to change, partying, because I’m not going to beat the forces at play. So, so and that, that’s where vibing comes in. That’s where vibing comes in. But the point I’m making is, you know, we got to acknowledge that there are a lot of forces at play, reinforcing the social norms that, you know, good times are associated with alcohol. Like, there’s a lot, there’s a very solid thing there. Um, and so what I’m more interested in, I don’t want to change the old, I want to just create something new, and shape it however I want. And that’s really like my life purpose is to invent just a whole new way of celebrating life. And that doesn’t involve alcohol. And that involves really intentional, you know, courageous ways of connecting, right?
Yeah, well, I, what the reason why that’s so genius too, is because if you if you tell someone not to do something, right, don’t think about an elephant right now stop, don’t think about an elephant, your brain can’t create an image for don’t, it creates an image. So you’re saying, “Hey, if you want to reduce drug use and alcohol use, it’s better to focus on building a healthy mind and body and creating something new, which again, this is in our path, this is the coolest thing.” We have a phone conversation a couple years back. And he tells me about this vibing movement that he’s starting. And he’s changing his name. I’m like, Dude, I just changed my name. And it’s called Vive 18. And this is probably like, a year and a half, two years since we last you know, and it was like, Are you kidding me? This is crazy. But we’re, I mean, we’re on the same mission, I don’t care, you can call on each other, whatever we want. I will always be, I want him to live and every day on on the party or movement. But this was, again, part of us, like you’re just connecting so funny. I love what your posture was like, I’m creating something new. And my posture was, while I’m starting to speak to younger audiences, the people who are hiring us to come work with them, schools, principals, drug free communities, they don’t want to use the word party because of those negative connotations. It is such a big tax to redefine the word I never thought of it like that, like what you did. It’s like, hey, billions of dollars are going into reinforcing the way you party is with alcohol and these drugs. So in order to combat that, I’m gonna have to come up with billions of dollars of budget. No way. All right, cool, let’s let’s create something new. I love the way that you put that. Whereas for mine, I had to just realize they don’t want to buy my speech anymore. They don’t want to buy my, Yeah. Because it has negative connotations. And the way it was put to me simply was, Jake, even if you party without drugs and alcohol, our principals don’t want to think about their students partying at all. You need to change that name. And I was like, I do. Yeah.
It’s, It’s so interesting, because, like, I’m sure those principles, I think it’s a very, okay. There’s, there’s introverts out there, who’ve had negative experiences, partying, and I’ve had negative experiences, partying, but really, like, one of the greatest joys I’ve discovered in life is coming into a relaxed social environment, where people are able to express joy, for like, no real reason just to be joyful. And, and, and get out of like talking. And so what I’m saying is, it’s funny, because I really think, you know, most people have had a really positive experience partying and do really enjoy being around accepting fun people that are joyful. So So partying Is this, like, very fun thing to do for most people. And yet, there’s this like, oh, you know, let’s keep it under the rug that we, you know, don’t it without we enjoy, like, celebrating, and, you know, being relaxed with our people. Like, it’s a very human thing. It’s, it’s very human nature, like we, we’ve been shaped as a as a tribal, as as a as a species that comes together in, in units. And one of the ways that we socially bonded was through through movement and through rhythm, right rhythm is actually a big, a big piece rhythm in song rhythm and movement was a huge factor in early civilization. So I just think, you know, I think that yeah, that The issue is that this very healthy behavior has been co-opted by like capitalistic systems that that, you know, just facilitate as much consumption as possible and it wipes out all the health benefits.
Right, I can’t argue it that, that that’s what it’s definitely you can tell focus on the money when your product release, like leads to so much destruction and death and school dropouts, date rapes, like all the all the things that happen through overconsumption, yet it’s marketed as if, yes, you need this to, to function whether you want to celebrate whether you want to relieve stress. If you’re having a good day, bad day, like you fail a test, you do great on the test. It’s like they’re wanting to make things every holiday, every date, after work, right. So like, there’s so many ads because they want to trigger this use of their product. And the sad thing is like, it’s really good marketing. They’re fantastic at it. They hire really smart people. But I I actually. So I want to talk about what you’re doing. Now, before I do that. Yeah. A quick thing for fun. When was it that you were doing your, like tour where you’re touring Europe and Central America? You know, here, it was.
“Building Community from the Bottom Up: Grassroots Movements, Local Champions, and Word of Mouth Impact”
Done multiple tours. So okay. I would say the most, the most, the tour that I look back on and I wonder how it was possible was in 2019. And that tour, I just looked back on those videos. And I just, I’m so inspired by my past self, because there are risks that I took and like what I was able to do, possibly because I was so naive. That was in 2019. But I also traveled for, for eight months in 2022. And, but that, that that wasn’t focused on what I was doing earlier, which was I’m going to go out in public, and I’m going to ignite joy in public. Yeah, 2019.
Okay, I was gonna see if that lined up for us as well, because there was the tour that I did with where we’d show up at colleges and throw sober house parties. And I don’t even know, do you remember me telling you about that we lived in a trailer. Yeah. Where it was and try to pull it off in a week. And I agree with you. It was there was like this. It was a naive naivety. And it also was just like a Hail Mary pass. You know, I was like, does this thing actually work? Is it worth pursuing? I didn’t haven’t figured out our business model yet. You know, and was trying to like, alright, what can we do to just validate this to see if I should keep going? And I think like, that was just such a crazy experience we got. And like, most of it was a failure, right? Like, but we did validate the idea. And we learned what mistakes that we needed to overcome. And so since then, no, right, like, alright, every, all those bad adventures served its purpose. And now we’re kind of adulting pretty hard, right?
I’m really curious to hear what, what was an instance of failure during that, during that trip? I’m so curious if some of the events just flopped. And what did you do to save the event.
It’ be a sto, shorter story if I told you a success, but I’m a I’m a fan of the real and the raw. So like, three quarters of the states that we visited, our goal was set up shop for a week, get to know this town, campus, meet people throw a party, right, which is huge to do in a week. I don’t know how I thought we can do this. And we went and we only really had success and like a couple states like Louisiana, Texas, Indiana, Mississippi, and they were luckily like it was big name schools. So we created some Yeah. I think even Alabama was okay, but the fail points were like, man, we we didn’t meet a single person who said what you’re doing is incredible. They’re like, Wait, you’re doing what you just showed up here and you’re gonna throw a party. That is so weird. Why are we working for what are you doing? And it was so weird. And that was the funny thing that was from the administrators, like oh, are the ones that should be excited because we’re going to solve a problem on their campus. We’re going to create a grassroots movement and improve their school culture, but they had never heard of it before. They never seen it. We didn’t do any marketing. We didn’t. Oh my gosh, it was so bad. Um, but some of the other things like the so when we were in Mississippi State, we threw a great party. But during one of our games, my wife Emily got a concussion. It was bad. So this game called Oh, am I was it called not hammer slog, stump. It’s called stump, you flip a hammer. By the way, we played this completely sober, I don’t understand how people would play it drinking, it sounds terrifying. But you flip a hammer in front of you, and then you have to hit a nail down on the stump. And every player has a nail, you want yours to be the last one standing. So when I flick the hammer and catch it, I gotta hit someone else’s nail. So this game is like a hit everywhere. In Wisconsin, people stay out like till it’s 35 degrees outside, they’re playing this game, they don’t care. But one of the kids is super uncoordinated, you get more points, if you try to toss it behind your back, and then catch it, you get three hits at an opponent’s nail. And so this kid is not coordinated. Like, it’s positive behind its back. And Emily’s over here, it just goes straight into her head. And instantly, it was like, we knew oh my gosh, she got a concussion. So we drove her home to rest, you know, to go get checked up by the doctor. And it was such a bummer for such a great day. For her to end up like one of our few successes on the tour was like, got cut short by that. That was a super bummer. But dude, we we like lived in a trailer, parked it outside of parking lot, brushed our teeth, you know, in grocery stores and YMCAs and stuff like that, like, it was just a wild time. So and both of it was just failing and doing crazy stuff. But the few times that it worked was cool. And it helped us learn why it works and why it does it.
The curiosity I have is this this this grassroots movement, like, it is possible to do that there are groups that find a way to just create this contagious word of mouth phenomenon for a party and they leverage, you know, they leverage Miss mystery. And, you know, like, it’s totally offline. And I’m so curious about this form of community building. And it’s it’s, it never has to do with the higher ups. You know, it’s the same with workplaces, right? You know, things that just get forced down from the top. Like, it’s just the brand, the brand of the initiative gets impacted, because it’s coming from the top versus if it’s coming from the bottom, it’s like, oh, this could actually be something useful. And we’re choosing to do this. So I’m, I’m like, and I think this has some some insight for changing social norms. I think that if we tell people, the social norms, it’s very different than nudging, or getting the people, the actual users, leveraging the users to change the social norms and to be leaders, as opposed to someone distant? Who’s unrelatable, who’s an administrator, who’s following all these rules, you know? So, yeah, I’m really curious about that. And, you know, my events here in the city now are all through text, text messages. I don’t do any email, I don’t do any marketing. It’s all underground. It’s all word of mouth. And it’s all about driving. It’s it’s, you know, communicated, but I’m still definitely a dictator.
Well, I mean, you hit it on the head, it’s like, you have to find that local champion who believes in it, and it’s coming from someone who’s part of this group, part of this movement is not an outsider. So like spreading anything, is you need that local champion. And that was the thing of like, when we didn’t have one, we failed. When we did have one we succeeded every time. And it didn’t matter whether the champion was like some charismatic person like you were I loved to be around people, or if it was this shy, little person, who like didn’t seem to have a lot of social skills, they still pulled it off not only their offering acceptance and belonging and joy, with no strings attached, and so people will come check it out. And I love what you said, which is like the word of mouth and a text message. That’s what works because that’s what friends like real friends and connections do. Like if I wanted a friend to come to my house for dinner. I would not put a poster up. I would not post it on social media. I’m going to communicate with them. Like a friend does. And that’s works like it’s, it’s impactful and make sense. So tell me more about what you’re doing now like these live experiences. Yeah, what it looks like, and then maybe how you work with organizations like I want to hear everything.
“Spreading Joy and Strengthening Connections: Team Building, Board Game Invention, and the Science of Joy”
Totally. I first would love to ask you, based on that tour experience, do you have any advice for everyone listening to me to create, create joyful experiences in groups in groups of people? I’m curious, like, if you were to summarize it in one tip, for, you know, creating sober events. What might you say? Yeah.
Right. Besides, dude, besides bringing you and I in to talk about it like this is what I would say is, you’re, you’re looking to create an environment that leaves people with one new friend and one new experience, that means that you leave the first impression, it cannot be left to chance. Yeah, regression. So when someone comes in the door, immediately, the experience that they have, is they are involved. And again, and they are meeting new people. That’s like, the number one mistake I see is we assume we hosted this event, we’ve got all these decorations, all these games, all these things to do. But we haven’t facilitated how we’re going to ease a guest into that experience, is that’s when like, man, you spent a lot of time and money but you still failed. Because you failed to realize that somebody walking into a new experience needs a little guide, they need a person to bring them in, they need a host. He need a host Dan, that’s a good way to put it. Like, yeah, would you agree? Or do you have a one that you’re like, super on, you’re like, hey, what do you think?
I think what you’re describing is beginning, beginning, someone’s an experience with inclusion. And with this concept of psychological safety, I am welcome here I am accepted. I can express myself. I can laugh, people are positive. Right. So that, you know, none of this is this is the hilarity of conferences that says it’s just not, it’s not designed for human connection at all. Designed for commerce. Right. So I love what you’re emphasizing because we’re the very first the first 15 minutes of the event, if you haven’t established this sense of safety and community and belonging. And and you haven’t set you haven’t made people feel welcome. And you haven’t brought the people who showed up alone in, then everything else after that doesn’t stick. So so nothing will stick unless you do what you’re saying. So I think it’s really important to just front load, all that all those social technologies, front load the social technologies, get people involved, get people connecting, give people structure, and encourage them to connect in a deeper, like more emotional way. Not just sadness, but joy. And then everything else, their organic interactions afterward are just much more smoother.
Ooh, that’s good. And you mentioned, you mentioned that it’s people don’t really do it that well in in the conference structure, and it’s designed for commerce, how can we identify that that’s true? How can you tell that it’s designed for commerce, versus how it’s identified? For connection?
Yeah, so the experience is mostly unstructured. And the content is delivered in one to many way. So I am on this planet to give leaders tools to to use joy to create what they want, which is you know, belonging, mental health, sense of community, right. And so those tools are not being used at most events. Most events are totally unstructured, and there’s no, there’s no real activity that people are doing, to really get them out of social autopilot and get them into a deeper, more human space. So what I advocate for is starting events with some level of structure that gives participants permission to do things they would normally only do when they’re drunk. Right? How do we create that? How do we replace alcohol just with a facilitator or with with an activity or with a game cuz, like, dis inhibition is really easy to create, and save not only disinhibition but also like stress relief, right? Like every human body is capable of doing things to relieve stress, to to activate joy, to, you know, feel feel safer around other humans, right? We have those tools available to us. And yet, people don’t use them. Because this fear that, you know, it’s, it’s might be too out of our guests comfort zones, or we don’t want to force our guests to do anything. So that’s my take on it.
Oh, that’s dang, that’s good. And it shows that what what you’re really doing as a facilitator, and what you’re really doing, as somebody who spreads joy is you’re getting, you’re getting people to accept the things that they want already, they want to connect, they want to feel included, they want to interact with people, which is mostly for anybody listening, when you talk about a conference and why it was special for you. It’s usually because the people that you met, and then your best ideas didn’t probably come from a speaker, like a saying this as a speaker myself, I know when I throw my conferences, I want to have more opportunities for you to talk to each other than for you to listen to me. That’s where the ideas come from. Because you have all the same issues, they all have the same challenges, you celebrate different things. So keeping in mind of that, like Jacques, that’s exactly what you’re saying is like, we need to have this one on one or like small group experience, not just Yes, feed me information, I will write it down. And then it’ll go in a notebook later. Or maybe I get one idea that motivates me. But then can I channel that into an experience that I had, or new connections and ideas? So that action is taken too so I 100% get it? So you’re you’ve worked with some pretty incredible festivals, companies, things like that, to help them integrate your model. What is what’s your favorite work that you get to do or how you partner with organizations?
Yeah, my two focuses right now are a team building, like community, board game invention, which is diving. So it’s a new team building activity that’s based on the science of joy. And it’s in the early stages. But the idea is that, you know, you don’t need to hire a facilitator, you don’t need to, you don’t need to research, all the games, you just press play on a TV on a recording. And it’s seamless, seamlessly facilitates an experience that is like very, very consistently delivers vitality, belonging, and joy. And so those three things right, vitality, belonging and joy, right, if we can get people into that state, everything else afterward, creative problem solving, you know, social skills become easier for that participant. So that’s kind of one thing that I’m working on. But really, what I’m excited about the purpose of vibing, the purpose of, you know, my speaking and my workshops is to equip people with like, to help them strengthen their joy muscles, and to give them give them tools to create more joy in their human connections, and also in their community interactions. And so, you know, joy is not only a natural antidepressant, but it’s also a tool to enhance, you know, like, the immune response it enhances creative problem solving. It enhances our intelligence. And this is all based on organizational psychology, right? Like joy is this, not only an end, but it’s also a means to so many things we care about, like we’re more productive and more intelligent, when we have joy flowing through our body. So what I’m really excited about is not only teaching people how to access joy, in a healthy way, right through human connection, through community connection, but also, how do we take advantage of joy? You know, in the workplace, in our leadership. And so that’s, that’s kind of more what I speak to when I’m at a workplace event or I’m at a conference. But what I’m most excited about is yeah, like how do we, how do we just have more fun and have more joy and how we connect with others like that to me. You know, if we develop that skill, and we can connect with anybody, and be energized by anybody, then life is just so so much more fun. And it’s so much healthier. Right?
“Connect with Jacques, the Party Scientist, for Joyful Community Building and No Drug and Alcohol Prevention”
Okay, I, I love that for so many reasons. And I’m going to pull out the practical first, which is because like, for me, it was leading youth groups and sessions and conferences and speaking, it’s building that cohesive unity. And so I can imagine, for me, going out a vibing exercise, when I get together, our student group is going to learn how to, you know, throw sober events and, and do great work to influence their peers on making healthier decisions. Sweet, let’s start with the vibing exercise, like, get them comfortable meeting each other, like spread that joy and connectivity. And I can imagine anybody else who’s got a youth club out here, which is probably most of them listening, it’s like, cool, like, let me check out this vibing thing. And what I love about your posture is you’re, you’re so you’re such a student, you’re a researcher, so talking with you about this is like next level for me, you know, like, I got to think a lot about what you’re saying. So I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, you’re relating this to every aspect of the human mind and body.” Which it’s just like, okay, cool. I’m sold, like, let’s get on this, let’s do this. How can people learn more about vibing? And like, check out your resources? I know, you’re super active on LinkedIn, too, and publish some awesome articles and stuff. But where should they go to connect with you?
Yeah, I’d recommend that you find me on LinkedIn. And that’s where I have my joy lab newsletter, where I post content about, you know, community building and, and human connection skills, right. And just to make sure I’m clear, you know, I believe that if we learn certain social skills, we’ll have such an abundant source of joy and energy, from our social interactions that suddenly we see, okay, alcohol, and drugs just inhibit my ability to get this joy, from human connection. And so that’s really where it comes into the no drug and alcohol prevention is, once people have a really healthy source of joy that’s just abundant. And it comes from their relational intelligence. None. It’s just like, Okay, well, I actually prefer this source of joy, like, this feels a lot better. So I’m going to choose that I don’t need to cope with all this anymore. And I think, you know, the larger question here is, how do we solve the loneliness problem on our campuses and in in our high schools, as well. And that’s a whole different conversation. But yeah, the party side, just on all platforms. And if you want to receive a free vibing sample exercise, just reach out to me and I’ll send it your way. It’s really early. So I’d love to figure out how to make this a real practical tool. So I’d love everyone’s feedback.
Well, you’re already doing it. And all of the yeah, dude our story how it lines up is just absolutely surreal. I appreciate you so much for being on this and being my friend. It’s like you encouraged me so much to keep doing this man. It’s it is awesome. So for everyone listening to the party talk podcast right now. Reach out to Jacques the party scientist. I mean, even if you just Google him, you’ll you’ll find a bunch of great content, articles written stuff he’s been on and shooting with some some ideas. Like he’s, he’s a subject matter expert on this, like, this is his field. He’s on so much studying. So I reached out to him, see how that can be helpful. And in case you haven’t been told lately, everyone listening to this and you are lifesavers, you are changing your communities. So keep doing the amazing work that you are. Know you’re not alone. And we’re going to do so much more together. So we’ll see you next Monday for another episode.
