“Breaking Stigmas: A Conversation with Janet Hadley, Founder of Choose Sunrise”

Welcome back everyone to the Party Talk Podcast where we empower leaders in Youth Drug Prevention. Today, I’m sitting down with Janet Hadley, and we’re about seven hours apart. Yeah, sometimes to hang out and get together. And I want to share a little bit about Janet first, just so you get a background on her. So she lives in the UK. And she is the founder of this program is company called Choose Sunrise. And the mission is to help every adult know that help is available when it comes to alcohol and drug addiction. And what I really love. I’m going to ask her all about it is she has this program where she will go into workplaces. And she calls it alcohol safe workplace. And she’s working with employers to make sure that the culture there is really inclusive to everyone, no matter if you are a drinker, or if you are not. And she even has an accreditation program. So really, really cool stuff, really future minded. And she’s already gaining a ton of traction. So Janet, first of all, thank you for being on the show. And I’m really, really stoked to see like what this conversation brings about.

Oh, thank you so much. Well, I love the intro, I felt quite flattered.

Yeah, that was, that was the job. So tell us, if you can give us your intro, and then maybe why you do this kind of work? That would be great.

Yeah, I mean, I love doing this kind of work. So my mission is to eliminate the stigma associated with asking for help with alcohol addiction and drug addiction. I think that stigma is what holds people back from asking for help when they are in a kind of gray area sort of hovering above the edge of trouble. And they don’t ask for help, because it’s so stigmatized, and they don’t want people to think they’re an addict, and they don’t want to carry that alcoholic label with them for the rest of their lives. So they carry on and then things can get really, really quite tragic. And I think we can help so many more people if we’d stigmatize. And the reason I set it up in the workplace is that I kind of had a look at other things that have been destigmatized. So things like mental health and depression and anxiety, and even menopause. Now, you know, when I joined the workforce, nobody would have mentioned the word menopause, ever, you know, never in a million years. And now it’s really common for men to talk about it. And it’s all because of work. It’s all because of the work that employers have done. So I just think it’s time to take alcohol on the same journey. And, yeah, reduce the stigma so that we can prevent harm.

“From Exclusivity to Empathy: A Former Drinker’s Journey to Creating an Alcohol Safe Workplace”

Wow. Okay, I love that there’s a strategy behind your mission and your method that you’re using to say I want to make a difference. And here’s the lane that needs to be a part of it.

And of course, I’ve had my issues with alcohol. You know, this is what drives me. When I stopped drinking. I was so scared of telling people that work because they all knew me as a drinker. And I was I was the boss who was buying the rounds of shots at four in the morning, I was the boss who was probably to be honest, doing some things that I’m not proud of like, never considering that there were people in my team who didn’t drink and putting every single event that we did, centered around alcohol and was in the pub, because that’s what I liked doing. And I didn’t, it was a complete blind spot for me as a drinker. And it’s only when I stopped drinking, that I realized how exclusive I had been. And that had created this sort of in crowd culture that I wasn’t proud of actually. And what I found myself on the outside of it, I suddenly realized that there was quite a lot of education needed, because there’s a lot of other managers out there who were just like me, who I had no idea that I was being exclusive and that there were people who probably didn’t feel like they belonged in my team. So I really didn’t realize that and yeah, I just think as a drinker, you have a blind spot to it. You do not see that. You really don’t you think that everybody else drinks like you know that I don’t drink anymore. I realized that there are some people who drink normally as well, which, you know, like, there are lots of people who can drink normally. I don’t think I ever drank normally. To be honest. I think even as a teenager, I just loved alcohol. And when I drank I drank so, you know, of course it had to do badly. Yeah.

One way to go with that kind of drinking.

Yeah, I’d say Oh, No one enjoys alcohol when they first take care I did. I really did. I loved it. I loved it from the beginning. It gave me confidence. It gave me this feeling of invincibility and socially I suddenly fitted in. I was because I was such a sort of sporty kid at school. I was like, Swati kid, and didn’t really fit in with the cool kids. And suddenly, I discovered alcohol. And I was like, cool again. And, you know, it’s like, it just, it take it kind of just took over.

Right, you came who you are to like, yeah, you’re choosing this method to feel all those things. Yeah. You get everything that comes with that, though. Exactly. Exactly. Wow. So when was it that things changed for you? And you decided to go probably like that? We’ll see. We’ll see. Yeah, like, Where does the story shift?

Yeah, well, there’s a couple of things that happened. I mean, I had my children. And then I didn’t drink for a little while when my children were young. But then this kind of mummy wine culture came into my life. And I started drinking wine, which I had never drawn before. But I got really into drinking wine. Before long I was drinking, the sorts of amounts that I used to drink out with friends socializing, but in the house. And then that was kind of even more dangerous in a way because behind closed doors, I didn’t know this, no one to judge you. So it kind of escalated. And then my husband was diagnosed with something, this is a really sad story, I should warn you, he was diagnosed with a brain tumor. And because we’ve been together since we were like childhood sweethearts, almost, you know, like the bomb dropped out of my world. And that’s where my drinking got really bad, because he was very ill. And I was really scared. And, like, almost grieving for him, even though he was still alive. And drinking in a different way. So kind of drinking to forget, rather than drinking to have fun or whatever. And I should say, at this point, he’s actually still alive. He’s still an amazing, that was five years ago. Wow, by all counts, he really should have left us by now. But he hasn’t. And he’s doing brilliantly. So you know, I am really, really glad that I tackled it because it all came to a head one morning when I’d got really drunk the night before. And one of my daughters said to me, “Mommy, I wish you would be a better role model.” And just all on heart. I know, wow, I know. I was like, this cannot carry on. And that wasn’t my last drink. But that was the point in time where I got help. That was the point where I decided to do something, I did have a couple of false starts where, you know, I slipped back into drinking. But that moment in time, is where the switch went on in my head that said, Enough is enough. And it took me a little while. But you know, I’m three and a half years sober now. And my life is better in every single way. As everyone always says, you know, my life is just infinitely better. And I’m so much happier. And I’m so grateful that I’ve had these years with my children and my husband, and to be able to enjoy them and remember them and not be drinking my way through them. And, you know, yeah, I’ve been able to process some of those really difficult emotions that I was pushing down with the drink and come to a place of acceptance with his illness, and, you know, accepting that he probably won’t grow old, but that we’re going to make the best of the time we have together and yeah, just enjoying life. So yeah, can feel a lot better.

“Aligning Visions: Accreditation Program Mirrors White House Recommendations for Recovery-Ready Workplaces”

Wow, that is it. That is a powerful story. And I love how it really encapsulates what you were talking about before, which is reducing the stigma because you’re sharing your story on how you thought you needed a hold of these things. And then when you got for help, you felt like, “oh, man, I can’t tell people are my identity or there’s this identity crisis in a way, who am I?” And now things are better on the other side. So I would love to actually want to circle back to something we just talked about before the call. You mentioned, just the the presidency in the US and just some legislation that just happened and what it means for our field. So would you kind of share that with our listener?

Yeah, I love, I mean, I wrote a LinkedIn post today saying “I think Joe Biden’s hacked into my computer and stolen my accreditation.” Because it’s so similar. What Joe Biden is recommending in this kind of toolkit for recovery ready workplaces. It’s kind of coming at it from a slightly different angle to me. So you know, the White House are talking really about the economic problems that the drug addictions cause And the stigma stopping people who’ve suffered with addiction getting back into work. Whereas I’m coming at it from more of an alcohol angle rather than drugs specifically, but the so much overlap. And what we are both saying is that the types of activities that are recommended to employers are so so similar to what I have with my accreditation. So we both talk about the importance of reducing stigma in the workplace by having things like peer support networks, and lived experience speakers. And we’re both talking about education, because that’s another way that stigma reduces is when people understand things better. They, you know, they accept them. Understanding that anyone can fall foul of addiction is not something that just happens to people who choose to drink too much. You know, there’s a lot of judgment around addiction, and oh, well, they chose to drink that much. So they deserve everything they got. And I don’t agree with that, if you were taught, I think it’s about the substance and how the substance takes over. So I think, sorry, sounds going off. I think there’s so much that we can do to help reduce stigma in the workplace through education, through theft experience speakers, but then he also talks about policy and having the right policies in place. So part of our accreditation is that you have to have a really robust policy around alcohol, like make it really clear what is and isn’t acceptable. I go into many employers, and they have a policy that says absolutely no drinking during working hours. But everyone goes to the pub on a Friday afternoon. And so this this whole gray area, people don’t know what’s allowed and what isn’t. Or it’ll say you can drink moderately, and well, how much is that? And what does that mean? And how do you enforce this policy and and then there’s stuff around events and having inclusive events where they’re not always centered in the pub, like the ones I used to run, and that you’ve got respectful, alcohol free options there. So not just orange juice, or dice me mad that so many things honestly, me and Joe Biden were like best is because I will read through his paper. I was like, I agree with you. I agree with him on so much of this. I know he’s not obviously written it is people who have clinic. But you know, I just thought yeah, this is great. And I love to see Mr. Come out of the States this week. And I just thought this is, you know, exactly what employers should be doing around addiction and normalizing the choice not to drink alcohol in particular. So, yeah, yeah.

Very cool. And I, I definitely want to ask how you even start a relationship with a workplace? Because here’s, here’s my thought process. Yes, I work typically with schools. And sometimes there can be a barrier of entry. But we can all agree that we don’t want young people using drugs early, it’s so harmful. And then you have the adults. And their posture is usually like, “Hey, I’m an adult, this is illegal drug, I can do whatever I want. Don’t tell me anything about this topic.” So there’s, there’s even like a big wall up. And workplaces might think, Oh, this is a personal issue. It’s not my issue. So how do you kind of make the case to say, No, this is essential, it’s impactful, and it matters to your business?

Yeah, I think the the most successful approach is to put yourself in the shoes of that employer and think about the benefits that you can bring into their workplace. So there’s a lot of data around that will give you approximations of the cost to businesses of alcohol in the workplace. There’s some really useful surveys that have been done in the UK, I’m sure there will be some of the things in the US. So one of them that was done recently by Aviva. In the UK, states. It’s called like all the numbers for how many hangovers there are at work, and how like, basically 20% of people have been drunk at work in the past year, which is interesting. Because like a huge number, like huge numbers. I mean, it’s sometimes it could be a lunchtime pint of us, it could be something a little bit more sinister. And then looking at data around accidents, and talking about risk in the workplace. So about 40% of all workplace accidents are alcohol related, alcohol or drugs related, and then you’ve got grievances. Sexual harassment is a big topic at the moment. And 50% of sexual harassment claims involve alcohol, like 50% that’s huge. And no one’s talking about that when they’re talking about sexual harassment. But if you want to reduce your sexual harassment claims, just get a really like, change your strategy for your events. Yeah, it’s quite cheap. I save you loads of money. So like, kind of coming at it a bit more from the financial angle can be helpful, I think. But you’re right. Sometimes I’ve had experiences where I’ve been so disappointed because I’ll have somebody within a large organization who really wants to go ahead with the accreditation, and they’re so sure that it’s right for their business. And we get all the way through, you know, we get really close to signing the deal. And then it gets kicked out at board level. And they come back to me and they are really deflated. Because someone at the board level is who is clearly a drinker has found it quite confronting, get his said, Well, I’m not going to tell people what to do. I’m not going to stop drinking, I’m not going to, you know, I’m still going to have wine o’clock on Fridays, I don’t know this in my workplace and sort of kicks it all back out. And they’re really disappointed that they haven’t been able to get through to their senior team. And, yeah, to be honest, once you’ve got to that point where someone at board level doesn’t want to you you might as well walk away from the sale, really. But it’s quite, it can be very frustrating. So yeah.

And that’s,that’s the thing about it being such a cultural thing, like this is so culturally accepted that if you want to make something safe, and you talk about your literature is about being inclusive, it’s not about smoking. Alcohol is evil, and no one should ever use it. Oh, no, it’s very inclusive. It shows the benefits. But when people use it, and they feel like they are right, it’s almost like you’re attacking them?

Yes. Yeah, I think that I would have been the same so I can understand. I think if someone had put that accreditation on my desk and said, You need to make sure your next event isn’t in the pub, because every single one you’ve done the share has been in the pup Jana, I would have been like, Oh, God, the fun police are here. Why can’t I do it? You know, and I think it is tough, because we’re pioneers, and we’re doing something new and different. And the dinosaurs, they don’t want to change. And I can completely understand why they don’t. But those people who have that attitude and who don’t let us in and who don’t work with us are pretty soon going to start to look quite outdated. And when the kind of generation Zed or the Gen Z, you probably call them in America and how to help Gen Z depends on how straight you are. They when they enter the workforce, they’re not looking for big boozy dues and a free bar they’re looking for, like gym memberships, and decent coffee and things like that. So they’re just going to slowly find that they’re not attracting the best of the talent and, and that they’re not retaining people. So we’ll help last laugh, basically.

Yeah, and that that’s the thing, too, is why it’s so important that you’re bringing in numbers is yeah, you’re like, hey, you can argue with me or things like that. Yeah, you can’t mess with the numbers. Like, here’s what it’s often you are, here’s what it is. And here’s what the next generation wants in a workplace. So, yeah, hey, I’m gonna be here doing my thing for my entire. So come back when you’re ready.

Well, we did. I tell you what, this is a little strategy that might work for some people out there. So I did a free survey for one client where there wasn’t, they weren’t paying yet. But I offered to do like an anonymous survey about Christmas gifting. And it must have been last Christmas. And they sent it out to the whole workforce. And they just said, every year we send a bottle of champagne to each of you this year, would you rather have the bottle of champagne or a double alcoholic alternative? And they thought it’d be about like, 95% Champagne 5% not. And it was 40% who wanted something different, like four zero 40% They couldn’t believe it. And then I was invited in to do some more work with them. So that was a good tactic, I think to us, because they it used their own data to demonstrate that I was I was right. I suppose you know that I had a good point and that they had overlooked it. So yeah.

Oh, that’s very cool. Very power.

Yes. Yeah. I mean, you don’t want to be doing too much work for free. But if you’re trying to get into a potentially, you know, really important client, then yeah, it did work. So let’s see what else has worked. We do some really good lead generation events. One of the things that you could consider doing potentially in your local area is inviting see the people from local businesses to come to an event and we call it like a teetotal tasting event. So we serve we have like a partner with an alcohol free drinks wholesaler who has like such an amazing range of alcohol free drinks and And he does some talks about some of the drinks and the local producers. And then I do a bit of a talk about, you know, the mistakes that employers make in the workplace around this. And it’s a good opportunity to kind of gather everyone’s email addresses and follow up with, you know, the brochures and things like that. So that that’s been quite a good way of getting people, you know, to come and do something a bit different. So, yeah, that’d be another recommendation that I would have.

“Shaping Perspectives: The Power of Public Speaking to Advocate for Alcohol Safety in the Workplace”

Good. And I love that for anyone listening here. And the question is always how do I engage adults? Is your showing one thing which is going through the employer is an option if you have what I would call a champion on the inside. Who says, Yes, I’m going to fight for this. We’re going to bring this in the other way like this. I love this idea of having an event. And you said a teetotaller taste. And yes. I don’t know if people in the US know like, that’s sober. Right.

Yeah. Probably. So we have an English word that teetotaller. Yeah. But you could call that you know, like, identities. AF is like a double meaning as well, like, bold AF events is the name of the company, I plant the word. I quite like that. 

So that’s cool. Yeah. And I love that that was an event where probably the, the provider of the drinks would probably sponsor it because they walk into that stuff. And is, it’s probably bringing in people who are in recovery, or who are passionate about their like being sober lifestyle. And and so those are some of your best allies in the workplace in unity. And you can start to do that networking in such a fun different way. Yeah,

Yeah. Yeah. And even if you don’t get any leads from it, it’s always a good light, like a good night out. Yeah, you know, we, yeah, we do we love doing those. Yeah, I think those are kind of my most successful ways in the other, the other thing that I do quite a lot of is I try and get public speaking engagements with audiences that are relevant to, you know, like HR managers. And in the UK, we have a lot of people who have like the word inclusion in their job title now. So you know, Head of Diversity and Inclusion or something like that. Those types of audiences. If you can get in front of those, that can be a really good way to get people thinking a bit differently about what is it actually like being given recovery in my organization? And something they might not thought about.

“Challenging Cultural Norms: Advocating for Responsible Marketing and Redefining Social Celebrations”

Have they been from like the HR standpoint, again? Are they pretty receptive to this as an area of diversity and inclusion?

Yes. So I set off thinking that people who worked in well being would be my target. But actually, people who work in diversity and inclusion have been the ones who’ve been most receptive to it, because I think they suddenly Yeah, they suddenly go, Gosh, it’s it is a minority group. And we definitely do have them in our workplace. And not only are they not being included, but people are actively trying to get them to drink that beat. You know, our, like, people tried to swayed non drinkers to drink. And it’s just when you think about it is so wronged. It’s backwards. Yeah, very backwards. I just wonder if it’s a matter of time until somebody Sue’s their employer for having a relapse on a work event. Wow, I just think it could happen. I really do. I’ve heard such stories. Honestly. I could share one with you. Actually, I’ll tell you to share your little story with you the story story, I’ll anonymize everything. But there’s a guy who had stopped drinking because he wasn’t like your classic addict. But he was drink, kept drinking to black to the point of blackout, and didn’t know what had happened and was a bit worried about his own behaviors, people that told him that he’d done things that he really regretted. So we decided to stop drinking. And he went on this workplace event. And everybody tried to persuade him to drink all the lattes or the big group of blokes who we normally hung out with. And in the end, he relented, and he had a few drinks and they got shots. And the last thing he can remember is taken a shot. And that’s it. Can’t remember anything after that. And then the next day, he goes into the office, and everyone is like, giving him the cold shoulder. And he asks one of his mates what happened, don’t remember and he said, Oh my god, do you not remember what you were doing? Like you were getting really handy with all the women and he’s like, Oh, my God. What happened? Though, remember, the next thing he knows he’s been called into HR with his manager. Sexual harassment claim one of the women has complained about what he was doing. He has no memory of it. But basically he gets fired and has to go home to his wife and young baby and tell them what’s happened. And, you know, luckily for him, they stood by him, and he kind of recovered and came back from that. But this is the US how people become homeless, you know? Yeah, that’s really that’s one work night out. One bit of peer pressure, one, you know, completely unintended consequences. And for him, I mean, this guy is in my wider network. And that’s not his personality. He’s not like that. But drink does things to people, disconnects the decision making abilities. They act in ways that they would never asked when they’re sober. You know, that old adage, if all you find out who they really are, when they’re drunk, is utter, utter nonsense, you find out who they really are when they’re sober.

Yeah, right. The other one of my friends, because I’m in this field, and I’ve gotten conditioned to tell people like, I’m not judging you, or if you drink, that’s okay, who am I to, to judge you on that. And there’s some truth to that. And there’s also the other side, that’s like, what other thing is making, you know, a mother abused her child, or somebody ruined their relationship, like there’s, there’s not another thing out there besides a drug that wouldn’t make them want to do things like that. And so there’s like a, as a two sides of it, that I’m like, Hey, I’m trying to be an inclusive, yeah, it doesn’t judge. And I’m also really, really angry. This does the people and I hate that it’s a part of our culture, and so widely accepted and encouraged and marketed to people.

I was just going to say, it’s the marketing that annoys me, because I think that all drugs and alcohol are kind of in the same category for me, but smoking and like it’s either all legal, or it’s all the legal. And the marketing should be blank white labels behind a closed door, you just have to go and ask for it. If you had to go and ask for, you know, a quarter as a pint of ethanol. That’d be very different to you, the constant stream of glamorized images that were subjected to from a very, very young age, all through our lives, we are sold this message that alcohol is going to be what you need to socialize, it’s going to be what you need to celebrate what you need to commiserate what you need, at the end of a stressful day. What you need when you’re a mum, because it’s stressful bringing up children, what you need, if you’re on a football pitch, because your favorite players got that logo on their shirt is like, this is this is this is an addictive carcinogen that we are promoting to our children. That it’s not okay. It’s really not okay. And I try really hard not to be anti alcohol like you like I’m actually I don’t judge people for drinking. Because I mean, the amount I’ve drunk in my life started be completely hypocritical. Of course, I understand. People will be drinking, but I, I, I am very, very anti alcohol advertising. I really don’t agree that it should be allowed to be advertised. Yeah, yeah. So I’m on a, I’m on a bit of a mission with, yeah, a single woman mission to make a difference. You can do it. I mean, yeah, it’s gonna be a slug. But why not?

“Connect with Janet Hadley and Choose Sunrise: Building Alcohol-Safe Workplaces for a Healthier, Inclusive Community”

Well, hopefully, you you won’t be single mission again, I would love for people to know, especially on this call, because they’re doing prevention work. And yeah, to make it a safer place for communities and families to grow up in. And so I would love to hear just a little bit when someone brings you into their workplace. And they say, yes, we want to work with you, what you do for them. And then also, just please plug like how we can you and bring you into our communities.

Oh, that’s so nice and but well, first of all, it’s amazing. The work that you guys are doing it is hard. I know it’s hard getting out there. And another day of being told, Oh, yeah, we’ve got like a private medical insurance that deals with that. And you’re like, No, yeah, that doesn’t deal with it. I know it doesn’t deal with it. So I’m with you. I’m with you guys. And what I do get that yes, and I get to go into an employer. I mean, it can be transformational for them. So we work through like a program of 12 standards that we set out that an employer needs to meet in order to become an alcohol safe workplace and those 12 Standards cover policy. First of all, getting that nailed down, making sure it includes support for people, making sure it’s really clear. Then we look at education, so education for the whole workforce, but also for line managers and training on what addiction in the workplace looks like. We have inspiration is one of our kind of pillars, if you like where we say that, as an employer, you need to provide positive role models. So whether it’s a lift experienced speaker or you might have a peer support network so that sober people, or people in recovery can find each other, like having that little spark of inspiration and meeting someone else who’s been there and done that can be the is the turning point. For so many people, we insist that they provide a way of accessing that. And then I feel like I’ve missed something really important. So policy, and then it’s around culture. The last one, really, it’s about things like the events, the tone from the top, gifting, you know, D gift alcohol without asking people first. What about expenses? If you’ve got people claiming, you know, 100 units of alcohol a week on expenses? Like I probably did. No one batted an eyelid. You know, you’re just saying, Wow, yeah, you kind of paid for me to develop an alcohol issue. Thanks. wiped out. So yeah, you know, like this, a lot of people who work in sales roles will be developing an alcohol use issue on company expenses, without a doubt, without a doubt. So there’s a lot of different angles to it. But we do with kind of probably takes about a year normally to work through kind of the whole program and put things in place. And then they get the accreditation, it goes through a panel of experts. So I have eight wonderful, wonderful people who helped me. They, their job is to look at the evidence that the employer submits and make sure that they do meet the standards before they get the batch that says alcohol safe workplace, and then they kind of go into like a maintenance program. So ongoing. We do like webinars. And when you new legislation drops in, then you know like this stuff will probably do one about Joe Biden’s recovery ready workplaces. In the new year, we do some of the employers will share, you know, things that have worked for them things that haven’t worked for them. So yeah, we kind of just have a bit of a community then. So it’s a lot of fun. It really is. It’s a lot of fun. Yeah, you can find out about it on choosesunrise.co.uk. You click on the accreditation logo, and it takes you to alcoholsafeworkplace.co.uk. So either one of those domains is fine. You can find me on LinkedIn, Janet Hadley. Always happy to chat to people on LinkedIn. I do use Instagram and Facebook. But you know what? I’m not very, I’m not very good at them. I’m not I’m really not I say if you go to my Instagram account, it’s mostly pictures of me at the park run or just like walking in a forest and it’s got nothing much to do with my business. You get a sense of who I am from my Instagram I think.

Don’t choose sunrise.co.uk that the best way. And then LinkedIn, LinkedIn. But yeah, if you want to get personal though, and followers on Facebook and Instagram.

Choose Sunrise on Instagram, park run pictures, basically. Yeah.

I love it. I relate to that. I need to get some young people on our Instagram account because I am. I’m not into it. But I know it’s important. Yeah, reach some of our younger audience members. So I’m just like, I will forward you all the photos, video. Yeah. And yeah, you can run with it. And that’s Yeah, yeah. I’m, like an 85 year old at heart.

Oh, me too. Well, someone told me someone texted me the other day and said, Do you know that you’ve updated your Instagram story to like a reel of your just your feet walking along? And I was like, No, that’s, that’s not intentional. Like, okay, I was walking along trying to do something on Instagram. And now I have a reel of my feet as my story. Yeah, brilliant.

That is so real. That is so good.

I’m becoming, I’m like a Nana. Basically, I’m like, you know, grandma, basically. But, you know, I’m only 47.

I am. I you know, with all the time I’m like, trying to add that speaking engagement. I’m with some students, you know, and they’re like talking to me, I like “hey, let’s take a quick selfie and I’ll post it on your Instagram page.” I turned it around and they’re like, you’re on video. Or you got around. Oh, whatever. Like I’ll you do it.

You do it? Yeah.

This is no good Janet, thank you so much for the show. And for all the incredible work that you’re doing and for anybody listening, reach out to Janet, if you need help with workplace I, I  know that this is such a need. And I don’t think that we’re doing it great here. There’s like a frontier to be had and Janet’s on the the, the right side of this, you know, blazing ahead. So she, as you can tell, she’s super smart. So I’m gonna stay in touch Janet and I would encourage anyone listening to get in touch as well.

Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Of course, for everyone listening to this episode of Party Talk where we empower leaders and youth drug prevention. I hope that you found this, this lesson I’ll call it super helpful because we learned so much about working with employers and keeping them as stakeholders in this and I know in your drug prevention coalition’s and communities you have them at the table. So maybe this helped you speak their language and get ideas on how you can serve them. And if you need help, go to choosesunrise.co.uk. Get in touch with Janet Hadley, and we’ll see you on next Monday for another episode of the Party Talk Podcast.