The Fentanyl Crisis in Communities

Welcome back to another episode of the Drug Prevention Power Hour. I’m your host, Jake White. And today I’m talking with Joe Eberstein and he is the, he’s a CPS, then the Director of Community Engagement for the Center for Community Research and the San Diego County Cannabis Public Health Initiative and we’re gonna talk all things what’s going on in his community, how he does prevention work and all that good stuff. So Joe, welcome to the show.

Oh my God, I’m so happy to be here, Jade. Good morning, everybody. Thanks for having me again.

Of course, and we were just joking. You don’t sound like you’re from California. Where did you grow up? Where’d you grow up?

I grew up on Long Island, born in Queens. I was a New York City cop for a while. And then I moved out to San Diego, I think in 2003, not really knowing anybody.

Wow. Okay, and did you dive into this work initially or what were you doing when you moved to California?

I was a jack of all trades. Let me tell you, I worked at Dish Network for a while. I worked at Intuit, electronic filing. And then ironically, I saw a position on Craigslist for a community organizer. I said, that looks interesting. I’m going to organize the community. And not knowing what that was. then, know, 2008 till now, I’ve been doing prevention work. And I got to tell you,

I was kind of that guy that didn’t know what he was gonna do, you know, right out of high school. And if I would have known about this career, I mean, I get excited when I do this work. I love it.

That’s cool. That’s really, really cool. We’re glad to have you in the field. Tell us a little bit about San Diego and your county and just kind of what is happening that you’re trying to tackle right now.

Well, you I gotta say the biggest issue is fentanyl. And we are here celebrated, not really celebrated, International Overdose Awareness Day last month. And the way we do that here in San Diego is we place flags representing the overdose victims. And this year, sadly, we placed 1,203 flags on the county building lawn. The year before, we put 1,300.

So we are seeing a little bit of a decrease, but really this is a scourge on every community and fentanyl is tearing our communities apart.

Yeah. And that’s one of the things whenever we go to a conference and we hear from the DEA or different law enforcement professionals and they’re finding so many drugs mixed with fentanyl and all the overdoses and accidental overdoses that are happening, it’s really sad. It’s a really scary time to be, if you’re going to use anything, it’s just a scary time.

Yeah. Yeah, it’s when we meet these families, I mean, we had one individual who lost three family members, three family members. know, common combinations we’re seeing here is meth and fentanyl. You know, I know this is really a marijuana related, you know, podcast. We haven’t seen any marijuana and mixed with fentanyl to make that decision. And we make sure with the DEA, please let us know if you see this as a trend. But thankfully, we haven’t really seen that.

Public Health and Cannabis Consumption

Okay, all right, that’s good to hear. So what are the things that you’re doing with your role in the community and what you’re doing now? What are some of the initiatives that y ‘all are doing to try and help and educate the public?

Yeah. Well, our county is really opening up to the marijuana industry. We’re going to start seeing cannabis consumption lounges, we’re really, really worried about from a public health standpoint. mean, smoke is smoke. And I don’t really understand how people think smoke from marijuana is healthier than tobacco smoke.

I don’t know how they’re getting approved for these licenses. I don’t know how people are going to get safely home from the location after using. They’re building a consumption lounge in National City, 16 ,000 square feet. And you will be able to store your marijuana on the premise. You’ll be able to use it. And then we said, well, how are people going to get home? we haven’t really figured that out. So we are trying to educate the kids to not use through education. Thankfully, we have a great prevention community here with a lot of experts, a lot of experts nationally like Dr. Ranit Lev, Dr. Natalie Lau. I mean, you really can’t argue about harms with an emergency room physician who literally practiced last night and saw cannabis related ER visits in her hospital. So. Yeah.

Thankfully, we have those, but we really educate the kids and do primary prevention. And that’s really important. I know we have harm reduction and all these. We don’t want kids to ever use. So we are constantly developing campaigns and tools that will help prevent first use. Now, we also in San Diego County run the Substance Use and Overdose Prevention Task Force.

My counterpart, Marla Kincaid, that’s why we have these great numbers on the overdoses. So we do a lot of education there. There’s a quarterly meeting. And we got a ton of media for that International Overdose Awareness Day event. We have to keep awareness alive. This should be on the news every single night. And it annoys me when I see people in political positions not talk about this. This is the number one issue we need to be talking about.

Yeah, it really is wild how it’s not part of the campaign or the challenges that we address. you’re running for national office or even statewide office and we’re seeing numbers like that, as a public health crisis, if this was happening in another industry or anything else caused those deaths, we’d be flipping out. It would be on the news every night. Like it is so strange. Do you have any clue why, like why are we not talking about it?

You know, I try to ask myself that and I’m really not sure. I mean, I have some thoughts. I mean, possibly because it involves political border issues and access or maybe the candidates don’t know enough. To me, I really don’t know. I mean, I get calls from communities nationally. I mean, West Virginia and every community is touched by this issue.

And to me, it’s not a political issue. This is a public health issue. The same way we rallied the resources around COVID, we need to be rallying the resources around fentanyl. We started to see kids popping up on the medical examiner’s table in 2021, which was a trend. said, this can’t go on. I mean, this is just now we’re seeing kids poisoned to death by fentanyl.

So thankfully, my counterpart, we jumped on that with County Office of Ed and got some education and tools out there. And that number has significantly decreased. So we are starting to see positive changes, you know, Jake, trends change. We got this Delta 8 hemp stuff coming out. We have no idea what that does to a human being or what the public health effects are mean, none of this has been tested.

Yeah, well that’s what’s so scary about this field is that because things change so quickly, we can’t be focusing on a single specific drug. We have to be focusing on the causation or the prevention of students using any harmful substance in the first place. And for them to realize how amazing their brain and their future can be so that they want to protect that instead of risking it. That’s yeah, it makes me thankful for the people that are on that side that are diving into those things because, yeah, I don’t have the patience for it or like the detectiveness to keep running that race. It’s important, but it’s an exhausting part of our field. Yeah.

Yeah. Jake, I was looking at your website and I’m so happy because I’m 53. We need young people in this field. And I’m trying at the national level, and I know several other people are, to make this a marketable field to go into. And that means to have a salary where you can afford to live. I mean, if you think about the work that we do, we are fighting some of these industries that are multi million dollars.

And we are the last line of defense at that city council meeting with a group of kids going against the alcohol industry that has billions of dollars. And I got to tell you, you know, not only does it help the kids to advocate for their community, but sometimes, like I said, we’re the only ones there on the other side. And it can be tough, especially with this marijuana issue. I’ve seen some really heated city council meetings regarding marijuana. You’re saying wow, you’re really addicted to this stuff. I can’t believe that you are yelling at kids over wanting to include it in the social host ordinance or something. Where is all this animosity coming from?

Yeah, yeah. And what you mentioned about getting this next generation involved, building sustainability for this industry, and it was cool to hear you say, like, if you had known this existed in high school, you could have jumped in or saw it as a career path. And I echo that. It’s been a passion of mine since I was a student and how I stumbled into this work. 

But what I think is really neat is that because the model of using peer -led prevention strategies is shown as effective, I’m really hopeful that we can do that. We can build a sustainable workforce and then hopefully bring more resources because there’s been some contracts where I’m working with different groups and prevention organizations and coalitions where I’ve seen a couple staff members come and go from the same position in the amount of a short contract that I’m doing work with them. And that’s sad. 

We can’t build a great organization with this much turnover. And so I do think we need more dollars, we need more funding, and we need more support and infrastructure in the field. And I’m excited to be part of it as in the small part, you know, the youth engagement piece of it and building up and recruiting young people into this work. It’s a really fulfilling one. I unfortunately don’t know the answers for the rest of it, but there’s good people in this field. I’m hopeful.

Engaging Youth in Prevention

Yeah, and I think too there’s this feeling that if you go into a school and you do some sort of a forum that it’s gonna be all downer and everybody’s gonna leave depressed. And I’ve been doing this for 15 years, that has never been my way of doing things. I wanna leave the kids laughing and happy and I don’t mind telling them I’m an alcoholic. I have a history of alcoholism in my family.

I have lived experience. So I’m an open book, but I don’t think we need to leave these kids feeling so depressed that they never wanna go to another prevention forum again. And let me tell you too, I sat as a kid in some of these events, you gotta get the seating right. You can’t have them sitting on a wooden floor for two hours. I mean, it’s uncomfortable. You wanna make it an event that they say, you know, that event that we went to really was uplifting. And I really got me talking to my friends about this issue. But you know, some people are still going in, they’re showing crash videos and you know, and I don’t know, maybe that works for them, but I’m not, I don’t do that kind of prevention.

Right. Well, the studies are showing that that’s not effective, right? The scare tactics or the trickery, the false things like those car crashes and, you know, even the simple games like the goggles. And I don’t know enough about the science to tell people why that doesn’t work. I can just point to the study to say, that’s not working. Let’s not follow that. 

And what I love about what you said was like you’re getting them laughing. And when you remember when you were a kid and someone came up in front and talked to you, if they made you laugh, you were surprised enough that you wanted to listen to them. You’re like, this guy or this girl is actually pretty cool. Like I’m going to listen for the next 10 minutes. wow. They’re actually interesting. They’re asking about us and they get us. I’m going to listen for another 10 minutes. And if the scare tactics and things like that and even sharing our own traumatic stories, we always have to be careful. It’s like, why are you telling this and what’s the outcome? Is this the platform and for what students? 

Because when you’re in a big group of students, there’s a lot of diversity in the room and diversity of experiences and background and everything. And so it has to be very strategic what we’re teaching, how we’re teaching it, and that we do make it uplifting and empowering because at the end, they hopefully will have made a decision that either strengthens theirs to say, yes, I’m going to remain drug-free or I’m going to consider asking for help, you know, getting some resources. And I think the third one is, do I feel empowered to make a difference? And if you have a fun experience, that’s easier for a student to get empowered by and say, I want to be a part of that. I don’t want to be a part of the scary thing. I want to be a part of the fun thing, the making change, and I can actually do it. So, I would love to hear Joe, how do you personally make it fun? What are some things that you do when you educate and work with young people?

Well, there’s a big difference between the age groups. I’m funded to work on age groups 12 to 25. But listen, I got to break them up into 12 to 17. That’s kind of the high school crowd. I recently spoke to new pediatricians at Rady’s Children. Now, I’m not going to give the same presentation that I gave 12 to 17year olds. But a couple of things that I always include is hard data.

And that’s one of the things that I’m proud of San Diego for pulling the data on cannabis use. And surprisingly, we have not seen, according to the California Healthy Kids Survey or Monitoring the Future, an increase in past 30 -day use. Now, some of my prevention colleagues will say, that’s not true. There must be a conspiracy going on. I mean, Jake, that would be a heck of a conspiracy between this national survey showing the same data as what the California Healthy Kids Survey, but it’s not, it isn’t a conspiracy theory. Now there were some anomalies in the data during COVID because we had a smaller sample size. So, but we still have not seen an increase, but I’m not saying it’s not a problem. We have 37 hospitalizations a day related to cannabis in this county. When we look at all hospitals.

The primary reason people visit a hospital here is for mental health. They’re using cannabis and they have cannabis psychosis or depression, and that’s a big issue. But let me get back to how I do prevention. I’m not afraid to share my story to any group. I’m not afraid to hear somebody’s point of view. mean, Jake, I got schooled one time when I first did youth presentation by a 14 year old girl. I handed her the microphone and she knew more about weed than I did. And I will never hand the microphone again over to a 14 year old girl. But you it’s like, this is you got to learn. And I said, I am never going to have that experience again. I’m going to learn everything there is to learn about marijuana or cannabis. I use them interchangeably, you know.

My county is really big on calling it cannabis, so that’s one of the reasons. But I’m always using facts. I’m an open book. And you don’t want to leave people with no resources. You don’t want to put this information out there and say, okay, everybody, good luck. Nice to talk to you for an hour. Give them the access and crisis line, SAMHSA 988. know, leave them with a way to contact a treatment provider or harm reduction. Yeah you know, it’s so easy. Two, one, one. There’s so many numbers out there. don’t even know how I remember half of them. You know?

The Role of Media in Drug Prevention

That’s good. What are the ones that the students say, hey, that was really helpful? Like they want to know the crisis hotline, suicide prevention or like which ones do they?

Yeah, I always get this, Jake. Somebody will come up to me, usually one or two students and say, you know, and these are the younger kids, it breaks my heart. You know, my mom or dad is having a problem. My older brother. Sometimes I think they’re talking about themselves, but they don’t want to tell me. So I say, listen, not here to judge. Here are the treatment providers. If you want to talk to somebody, and then I’ll go to their teacher and say,

Hey, you know, we’ve been doing this presentation for a while. If you want to talk to Johnny, you know, tell him that you’re here for him if he wants to talk. And here are some resources, you know, that, you know, and all of it can be done with a Zoom group too. There’s a lot of ways where you don’t have to show up anymore and announce you’re here to the world. That can be really, really tough for people and a young person. So, I mean, join a Zoom group, just listen.

Is marijuana anonymous? Maranon? You know, you’re not out of the ordinary if you’re seeking support for somebody in your family that uses marijuana a lot. I this stuff is very potent. They’re hitting the vape pen 40 times a day from when they wake up to when they go to sleep. And, you know, I have people, I know people who smoke marijuana. They’re not bad people. They’re addicted to THC. And if you take it away from them, you can see the withdrawal they go through.

Yeah, well, that’s one of the things that I also get challenged on when educating young people is they have these false ideas. Well, I heard that cannabis is not addictive. Well, how can it be harmful to our mental health if people use it as medicine? People tell me it’s natural. How can something that’s natural be bad for me? And so I, like you, I have a part of my presentation where I’m like, I’m wanting to give them Mike.

I bring up a couple of students, we go through that. And now since I know there’s so many in the audience that want to challenge it, I’m like, let’s go, let’s talk about this. And I do get really good responses that test my knowledge, you where I’m at, and I’m able to offer some good analogies to help them understand, because something is natural does not mean it’s healthy or good for you. Like alcohol is the same way. The most popular drug on the planet.

Yeah and it does horrific things. It’s natural. It’s made from fruit, grain, and vegetables going through a process called fermentation. It’s as natural as it gets, you know?

I’m gonna tell you, they didn’t have 90% in a vape pen. That’s not natural. Let me tell you what made me feel better about the whole not believing, because I had to let that go. Because I literally, I don’t wanna say wasted half the presentation trying to convince that one person and forgetting that I have 100 other people that are listening intently. That’s not natural. No way.

But when Dr. Lev says that she’s seen patients over and over again who don’t believe her, that they have cannabis hyperemesis syndrome where they’re vomiting and they don’t want to believe that it has anything to do, and they’re racking up thousands of dollars in medical debt because they don’t want to stop using. And literally she says, now this is your 10th visit here for cannabis hyperemesis and you’re racking up all this. Do you want to just try to quit for two weeks and see?

And so I don’t feel bad. mean, how can you argue with a, she used to be the chief medical officer for the ONDCP, Office of National Drug Control Policy. How can you argue with that? So, I mean, I don’t have a medical background. I don’t take offense to it. Like, okay, well, if you do come around, I’m here to talk. I’ll give you my email. And maybe I’ll put you in contact with Dr. Lemp and you can talk to her directly.

Yeah, there you go. And she has an incredible podcast, High Truths on Addiction. think. Yeah, so if you’re listening to this one and you don’t know about that one, go and hear her stories and what she talks about. It’s incredible. I was on one of her free webinars last week and just blown away by the stories and supporting materials because what I think happens in the audience is yeah, high truths on drugs and addiction.

Even if there’s a doubt in their mind and it’s spoken by one person, a few people have it. If you can address it in 10, 15 seconds, go for it to show confidence in your answer and maybe point them to a resource. But the students today are so smart, they’re going to look for answers and we can help them find the right answers and resources because when just like when cigarettes became popularized, they had ads saying nine out of 10 doctors support this and all these things that were copied by vaping products. And so they’re believing we’re still in the same stage of vaping as we were in the beginning of cigarettes. so to point them in the direction of good information is, is really, really helpful.

Yeah, I mean, if we could be transported back to the 50s and just imagine us trying to do tobacco prevention, they would have looked at us like we were crazy. Like, what are you talking about? Humphrey Bogart is doing it and this person’s doing it and all these, everybody. mean, there was cigarettes all. And I mean, I’m older than you. There were ashtrays and planes. I mean, I had a respiratory therapist that was smoking while he was diagnosing me with asthma.

I mean, that was, and he was a World War II vet, he had shrapnel in his leg. And I remember my dad, he was a great doctor, but he was sitting here saying, yeah, you have asthma and he’s puffing away on a cigarette while he’s giving me, you know, my medicine. So, I mean, these are the types of norms changes that unfortunately with cigarettes, it took many, many years and a lot of deaths. My dad had COPD. I mean, he literally coughed the last two years of his life.

And he was coughing up his lungs. mean, but he smoked two packs a day. My mom still smokes Virginia Slims. And then they were like, you have asthma. What a shock. mean, well, I’m from Long Island. So we either had the windows shut because the air conditioner was on or the heat was on. So now I’m marinating in three packs cigarettes a day. You know, so, you know. Wow. Yeah. You’re like, okay, yeah, one plus one is two. That makes sense.

Yeah, those drapes were supposed to be white and now they look like, you know, so. Yeah, my fifth grade teacher asked me if I smoked and I said, no, I’m five, you know, or whatever. And I guess because my clothes smelled like it. I mean, let me say again, I love my parents. I’m not trying to bad mouth them, but again, these were the norms, you know, there was a case of beer in the, in the fridge and there were cigarette ashtrays all over the place. And that was it.

Yeah. Well, what do you have you heard? How does secondhand smoke from cigarettes compare to cannabis? And I just came across something saying that secondhand marijuana smoke is just as bad, if not a little bit worse for toxicity than with nicotine and cigarettes. Is that true?

I heard that too, that’s a study that recently came out. There’s more cancer causing carcinogens in marijuana smoke. And because you breathe more deeply, your lungs are getting more damaged when people are taking a hit. They’re holding it in their mouth and in their lungs. When you smoke a cigarette, you’re in and out, you know? So that’s one thing. And then, you know, as far as vaping goes, you know this.

These devices now, I mean, there’s Chinese vapes coming over from, I mean, I guess they’re coming from Mexico through China to Mexico. And I mean, we don’t know what the toxicity levels are. The batteries are blowing up, but kids really like them because there’s all this new technology on them. You can play video games on some of these vape pens. And, you know, they’re making them really, really awesome to have but we don’t know the long -term impact. I mean, what happened to E -Valley lung injury, e-cigarette and vaping associated lung injury? All of a sudden we had a hundred cases here in San Diego, then COVID came. We’re not even tracking that anymore. I don’t think it just went away.

Right, yeah, no way. That is wild. The attention was that we’re in a vaping epidemic and it was replaced by we’re in COVID epidemic.

Yep. And I’ll tell you, I’m sure some of those evalicase got mixed up with COVID. Because Dr. Lev said actually, I think it was last summer, she had an evalicase at her hospital that wasn’t tracked by the county. So I think it’s still going on. mean, there was a kid who had a double lung transplant because of it. He was an athlete. And it was successful. Thank God he’s doing well. You know, where did that go? And we don’t know what the cause of it was. Was it liquid nicotine? Was it THC? I mean, where did it come from? We still don’t have an answer or conclusion on.

Yeah, I had a student intern with us. I asked her, why did you want to work with us and, you know, support the cause? And she said, well, I’m an athlete. I’m in high school. I started using and all of a I couldn’t run up the stairs. Like within a year of using, less than a year. And I look at my friends doing it and I just want to rip it out of their mouths. She said, I do sometimes. I rip it out of their mouths. If there’s anything else I can do to stop people from doing this, you know, I’m in. It’s wild.

Yeah, don’t like it. I got to tell you that that sweet smell, I think the problem is the amount of use. I don’t even think they’re aware of how much they’re hitting that pen a day. I mean, I don’t know. There are some studies out there, one said 36 times a day, which, you know, to me, but I have to tell you, I know people who are using that all throughout the day and they’re driving and they’re picking the kids. I mean, it’s like, what is this doing to your senses? And you just seem so comfortable with using it. I mean, it’s just really kind of scary because, again, it’s a mechanical device and you’re kind of popping it in your mouth. And it’s just even habitual just to keep going like this.

Right? Yeah, just the habit -forming action itself besides the chemicals. Well, what are… If we could leave our audience with a couple things to know about today’s cannabis and vaping products, maybe what are some things that you think, hey, be armed with this information. Yeah, do you have anything like that that you’d like to share?

Understanding Cannabis and Mental Health

Yes. First of all, most kids are not using substances on a regular basis. I want people to know that. I think it helps. And the data says this too. I know a lot of our messages gear towards the ones who might do more or experience more, but most of them are not graduating to frequent use and even addiction. So that’s a good thing. We can have some positive messages. There’s nothing natural about today’s marijuana.

and there’s absolutely nothing natural about it. mean, the marijuana 40, 50 years ago was maybe five to 10% THC and now we’re seeing 90%. You you talk to doctors and they say there’s no medical reason to use 90% THC. If you need medical marijuana, you can go and get Epidiolex, for seizure disorders over at Walgreens with a pharmacist. You are not gonna get your medicine at some dispensary where the budtender barely graduated high school and has no medical background. By the way, it’s illegal for them to be giving out medical advice. So now that they have a license, you can report that to the Department of Cannabis Control. They are not supposed to be giving out any sort of medical advice. So a couple of things, as I want to reiterate, not everybody’s using. There’s nothing natural about it.

It is addictive. It’s the primary drug of choice for youth ages 12 to 17 and county funded treatment in San Diego. And then for our 18 to 25 year olds, that’s methamphetamine. So there’s a graduation from using marijuana to harder substances or co -using. The other big thing is it does not make you a safer driver. Today’s marijuana acts as a stimulant and actually makes you more aggressive.

So I please from the data, we see that people are packing their friends in the car after using and driving to go get some chips or whatever. Most accidents happen within a mile. And that’s where we see these devastating accidents where the driver survives, all the friends die. So please don’t believe that false conception that it makes you slower to respond or whatever. It makes you more aggressive.

Wow. Yeah, that’s really important. And I think a lot of young people, they try to use it as a solution to their mental health issues. And so if we can understand a few pieces of data around that, the ones that I’ve heard is that by using marijuana regularly, you’re three and a half times more likely to develop or to attempt suicide and you’re five times more likely to develop psychosis. And you’ve talked about that, the cannabis induced psychosis and tragically, you we know stories from people across the country who are losing their kids and students losing friends to this. 

So just letting them know, hey, it’s not a solution to your mental health problem. It’s actually making it worse. And if you start using, just canvas your feelings when the immediate effects wear off. You know, ask for help if you need it, bring a friend. Because the other one I heard was that you’re 37% more likely to develop depression if you use regularly as a young person. I think that’s, again, the causation of why someone would use. Let’s show them there’s other options out there, other coping skills and strategies, ask for help, all that good stuff.

Yeah, Jake, it’s the number one drug found in suicides here in San Diego for kids younger than 25. It’s more common than alcohol, THC is found. And the most common form of suicide that these kids are is jumping. you know, and jumping, know, Dr. Lev said, goes more to the psychosis. Somebody’s chasing me or I’m hearing voices saying to run.

You know, this is a very common ailment to see at the emergency room. And again, to try and convince somebody who’s in psychosis that this is exacerbating their condition. It also interferes with common mental health medication with the drug interactions. So you gotta be really careful. What I would say is if you’re not feeling well mentally or physically, go to your primary care physician.

If you don’t have one, talk to your mom or dad or an adult and say, I’m not feeling well. I want to go and be honest with a doctor and tell them, I’m considering using this. I hear voices, they’re self defeating thoughts. I feel suicidal. And I just want to have an open conversation before I’m judged. I don’t want to be judged. I just want help. So yeah, the mental health, I think, is going to be what lung disease was for cigarettes, think mental health is going to be for marijuana in the future. They’re to say, how did you ever let access explode like this? Because I’ll tell you, all the data is saying that our kids are having a mental health crisis, especially our young females.

Yeah, and now there’s access to all these negative coping strategies. Here’s another one right here. I’m gonna compare myself on social media now and I’m gonna get depressed because I don’t look like that. And I just looked at my boyfriend who’s dating somebody new and all of this and I’m gonna keep hitting the vape pen and getting depressed. So, you know.

Advice for Prevention Professionals

Yeah, I mean, comparison happens to all of us, but especially when you’re young and you’re searching for your identity, you’re searching for belonging and your frontal lobe isn’t developed yet, so you’re not as solid in who you are as a person, like, yet. So that, every little coping strategy or coping mess is just greater. 

Let’s end the episode with this, What advice would you give our counterparts across the country that are listening to this? They’re doing prevention in their own communities. Is there anything that you’re doing that’s really working that they can copy or things to celebrate that maybe they can do in their community?

Yeah. Well, first of all, I want to say thank you to you and thank you for all the young people that are getting into prevention. I want you to know you’re not alone. There’s a lot of us that are fighting out there behind the scenes. We are having a lot of success working with the media lately. We did a three -part series on marijuana and public health harms with Jim Avila with 20-20 and he used to be the White House media correspondent.

He was very interested in the topic. But I will tell you, he even said in all of his career, this was one of the hardest stories to get out there as soon as the industry heard about it. They wanted to come in and they were threatening lawsuits. So we did have success with getting it out there. And it shined the light on edible poisonings with kids.

Why on earth are you baking this into cookies and candies that look exactly like the familiar brand, the mental health aspect? And AB 1207, which would have prohibited these from looking like candies, which Governor Newsom vetoed and still doesn’t give a clear answer why he vetoed it.

Wow. Okay, so media is something we can really lean into knowing there might be some pushback, but that that’s been an avenue to help people realize what it’s done. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, reach out to your local news, make sure you have the data and make sure you have family stories. The real heroes in our stories were the families that we got to talk about their own children’s experience. And one of the things that convinced me was the two parents that we had had exactly similar experiences with their children and they have never met before.

And everybody said, well, it must be meth they’re on. They never tested positive for any other substance other than THC. And both of their sons were experienced psychosis, suicidal ideation. So they were the heroes because they shared their stories.

Yeah, and one of the tips one of my friends works in media and she said something that I think you’re touching on, which is when you pitch your idea to the media, here’s a few tips. Number one, put everything in the email. Don’t include a bunch of attachments. They’re busy, they’re getting 100 stories. So just put your text press release data in the email. Don’t let them click twice. The second thing is tell them who you have access to.

You can interview this person, this person, this expert, this one who has a personal story, this person who’s an expert on this. And so they can see the story coming into play and that you’ve taken all of their work off their plate because now you bring them, everyone to the table and they just get to do what they do best. So I love that, Joe, that’s going to be super helpful. If people are, you don’t want to follow your work that you’re doing, get in touch. Where can we find out more about what you’re doing?

Well, let me say too, Jake, this is media, what we’re doing right now. And if the media isn’t listening, you do what you did and you start your own podcast. Because let me just say traditional media is going bye bye. This is the new form of media. So if you don’t feel like you’re getting traction, start a podcast. Get it out there. Because we don’t know that the media has been focusing on so many bizarre things. I mean, lately.

You think that you put all of it together and then all of a sudden something happens the day before and nobody shows up. It could be very defeating for the kids that you have. So all of that. So if anybody wants to reach out, you can go to www.ccrconsulting.org or Jake, I can give you my email. I’m very approachable. You can email me directly. I get emails all the time. If there’s any way we can help your coalition.

I speak nationally, I speak locally. I’ll come and talk about what we’ve seen here in San Diego and in California. But again, I want you to know that what you’re doing today is a service through the media that you’re providing and through all the listeners that you have. So please enter this field. You’re doing a good job. Thanks, Joe. I think it is showing some promise why I think we’re turning the corner with marijuana. People are understanding the harms.

Yeah, thank you, Joe. This has been awesome and I appreciate your encouragement. And for everyone listening to this podcast, thank you. Thanks for sticking around for every episode. If you enjoy this, please share this episode with a friend and leave us a review. Those really help get the word out. Again, we want this to be an amazing free resource where you get to kind of virtually hang out with your peers in prevention, learn from each other. Because even I know when we go to a conference and we, you know, hang out with the experts. We always learn something great and we bring it back home. But when we meet our peers, we leave with great ideas. We leave with implementation and action items. And so that’s my hope is that this continues to be that for you. And if you have anyone you think we should be on the show, just let me know about that and keep up the incredible work that you’re doing. And with that said, we’ll see you next Monday for another episode of the Drug Prevention Power Hour.